Wiki How:Featured article candidates/2005 Sugar Bowl

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 01:39, 16 September 2008 [1].

Nominator(s): JKBrooks85 (talk)

Hello, all! It's been several months since my last FAC, and in honor of the start of the American college football season, I've put 2005 Sugar Bowl through a rigorous pre-FAC process and believe it is ready to run the gauntlet thrown down by yourself. This article follows in the style of two previous bowl game FACs: 2008 Orange Bowl and 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl. Its weakest element is perhaps a lack of images, but because I was unable to find sufficient free-use images, I decided against adding fair-use ones at the present time. If you disagree, add a comment to that effect, and I'll be happy to work with you on that. This article was promoted to Good Article status in July and since then has been informally peer reviewed by three editors within WP:CFB. I feel this article ranks among Wikipedia's best and meets all requirements for featured status. If you feel otherwise, please leave a comment, and I'll be happy to address it in turn. I have run both the disambiguation checker and external links check tools on this article and have fixed things where appropriate. Thanks for taking the time to review this article, and have a great day! JKBrooks85 (talk) 07:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image comment - generally game articles would not have a logo per WP:NFCC minimal usage, some times the main article might, such as, FA Cup, but game instances such as 2007 FA Cup Final, 2006 FA Cup Final, 2005 FA Cup Final .... do notalthough, neither Superbowl or World Series use any non-free competition identifiers. I am unsure about the validity of the usage of Image:Sugar_Bowl_Logo.gif Fasach Nua (talk) 13:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Every previous single-game FA has used a logo before now. I'd argue that precedent has already been set with articles such as 2008 Orange Bowl, 2006 Chick-fil-A Bowl, 2005 ACC Championship Game and 2007 ACC Championship Game. JKBrooks85 (talk) 22:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• For me precedent is a fancy way of saying WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, I think the image use doesnt increase understanding, or comply with minimal use Fasach Nua (talk) 13:30, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• I disagree, looking over WP:NFCC, I don't see a problem here. I think the Sugar Bowl logo is appropriate for each Sugar Bowl game (esp. if its the version used for the game, some of these logos change over time). It fits the same logic of using team logos on the top of their season pages. Saying that shouldn't be dismissed using WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS when a person is pointing to FA examples, which are considered model Wikipedia articles. --Bobak (talk) 14:58, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

• Per the MOS, link titles in the references shouldn't be in all capitals.

Otherwise sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Removed the two that I saw. JKBrooks85 (talk) 23:53, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support - I provided a pre-review that can be found on the article's talk page. Picking up where I left off...

• Defensive matchups, Virginia Tech: One-sentence paragraph here. I actually think this would match well with the next paragraph. If you disagree, keep in mind that my new monitor is making everything look stubby. A 20-inch flatscreen will do that to you. :-)

• Done.

• Game summary: There is an article for football officials at Official (American football). If nothing else, it can be used for the red link.

• Done.

• First quarter: "then completed a four-yard pass to wide receiver Eddie Royal two plays later for the game's first down." Look at this carefully, because "the game's first down" is problematic. First first down would be quite redundant, but someone with your experience should have no problem fixing this.

• Done.

• "instead punting in the ball away."

• Done.

• Which Auburn player intercepted the pass? Sorry if that's a bad memory for you, but that jumped out at me immediately.

• Done.

• Second quarter: "Auburn's offense took over at its one-yard line after the Tech failure." To avoid any appearance of POV, I would put it "after Tech's failure to score."

• Done.

• Third quarter: "Scoreless and down by 16 points, Tech needed to score." A bit repetitive, don't you think?

• Done.

• Fourth quarter: "Despite the short distance, however, Pace missed the kick." However is an unneeded word when paired with despite.

• Done.

• "stopping the clock when each of the three stoppages were used." Stopping and stoppages together don't look so good.

• Done.

• Post-game effects: I'm overwhelmed by the first paragraph, if you get what I mean.

• Done.

• That wasn't what I meant. It was a playful reference to the three overwhelmeds in two sentences. :-) Giants2008 (17-14) 19:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Oh. In that case, it's been fixed. I must've been particularly dense that day. JKBrooks85 (talk) 19:29, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Three one-sentence paragraphs here. Can anything be done to lower this number?

• Done.

• Roanoke Times needs italics here and in the lead.

• Done.

Let me know when these are taken care off and I will support. It's really a very good model for similar event articles. Giants2008 (17-14) 02:56, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If there's anything else, let me know. Thanks for taking the time to review it! JKBrooks85 (talk) 04:29, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)-Yay, another college football article—something I can understand!

• "On the Virginia Tech side, senior quarterback Bryan Randall had a statistically significant season"-casual readers might not know what a "statistically significant" season is for a quarterback.

• Changed.

• 2005 Orange Bowl has been linked twice.

• Unlinked.

• "Fortunately for the Hokies, they did just that." Sounds unencyclopedic to me.

• Changed.

• "Auburn went into the SEC championship game undefeated and in third place nationally." "went into"-->entered.

• Changed.

• "With the winner of the BCS Championship Game guaranteed to win the Coaches Poll," I don't think it's possible to "win" the Coaches Poll.

• Changed.

• "In the weeks leading up to the game, media coverage of the game focused on Auburn being left out of the national championship game," How about:"In the weeks leading up to the game, media coverage of the game focused on Auburn's exclusion from the national championship game".

• Changed.

• "a point of controversy for Auburn fans and other observers in the weeks leading up to the game." point of controversy-->controversial point.

• Changed.

• "Humes was on the field slightly less than Imoh, but earned 595 yards and five touchdowns with 124 carries." Technical term: with should be on.

• Changed.

I'll finish the comments later. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:02, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for what you've given me so far. Can't wait to see what else you come up with! JKBrooks85 (talk) 21:09, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• "Official attendance was listed as 77,349.[57] Mike Tirico, Tim Brant, Terry Bowden, and Suzy Shuster were the broadcasters for the television broadcast, which was aired on ABC." The word "broadcasters" is repetitive because the word broadcast immediately follows. Try announcers.

• Fixed.

• "Approximately 10 million households watched the game on television in the United States, giving the game a Nielsen Rating of 9.5 and making it the 24th most popular Bowl Championship Series game in terms of television ratings." Approximately-->about, simpler wording.

• Fixed.

• "The traditional pregame singing of the national anthem was done by singer Brad Arnold from the band 3 Doors Down." Shorten this sentence some: "The traditional pregame national anthem was sung by Brad Arnold from the band 3 Doors Down." It's understood that the national anthem was sung by a singer.

• Fixed.

• Kickoff is also overlinked.

• Fixed.

• "Virginia Tech began the second quarter in possession of the ball, and driving down the field." Grammatically incorrect: "Virginia Tech began the second quarter with possession of the ball, and drove down the field."

• I removed the comma instead, making it a dependent clause, which it should've been in the first place.

• "Together, the various organizations presented a pirate-themed show based on the character of Jean Lafitte, a noted brigand who made his home in New Orleans—site of the game—during the War of 1812." Various is vague. "made his home" can be shortened to lived—unless it's important that the brigand actually built his own home in New Orleans.

• Changed it to "lived".

Dabomb87 (talk) 21:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• "A missed two-point conversion made the game 16–6." Two-point conversions aren't hit-or-miss things, try "unsuccessful".

• Changed.

• "With almost no time remaining in the game, however, Virginia Tech was forced to attempt an onside kick in order to have another chance on offense." Delete "however", this sentence doesn't contradict the last.

• Changed.

• "For the defense, Virginia Tech cornerback Jimmy Williams was the star performer." "star performer" seems a little POV, try "top performer".

• Changed.

• "Three players had one sack apiece—two for Virginia Tech and one for Auburn." Apiece is unnecessary.

• Changed.

• "Auburn's thin margin of victory over Tech put a split national title in doubt, though not out of reach." "a"-->the prospect of, the current version is unclear.

• Changed.

Dabomb87 (talk) 00:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the suggestions! They've been good ones. JKBrooks85 (talk) 07:42, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Between the Auburn defense section and the Virginia Tech defense section, there are inconsistencies in the yardage formats used: ((allowing only 11.2 points per game)—only is POV, (allowing 269.5 yards per game), (106.5 yards per game), (149.8 yards allowed/game). Use one format.

• Changed to "per game".

• "Linebacker Vince Hall ranked second on the team in total tackles with 62 during the regular season prior to the Sugar Bowl.[50] Fellow linebacker Mikal Baaqee was first on the team, with 63." There's nothing wrong with these sentences, but why is the player with the second-most tackles mentioned first?

• I believe that originally occurred due to the fact that the second-most guy came in the source I looked at first. It's been changed. JKBrooks85 (talk) 22:33, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dabomb87 (talk) 12:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• "Visiting fans of both Auburn and Virginia Tech injected tens of millions of dollars into the New Orleans economy, despite high food, travel, and lodging costs that had some fans scrimping on spending during their trips." Wording changes needed: "The visiting fans of Auburn and Virginia Tech injected tens of millions of dollars into the New Orleans economy, despite high food, travel, and lodging costs that forced some fans to cut discretionary spending during their trips."

• Changed.

• "On the defensive line, defensive tackle Jonathan Lewis was considered a key player. Though limited by a cast protecting a broken pinky finger suffered during Virginia Tech's game against Virginia, Lewis was expected to be a key player against the Tigers." Repitition of "key player".

• Changed.

• "There, however, the Tech offense stumbled." I don't like the word "stumbled". It makes it sound like the offense tripped and fell or something. (Picky, I know)

• Changed.

• "Together, the various organizations presented a pirate-themed show based on the character of Jean Lafitte, a noted brigand who lived in New Orleans—site of the game—during the War of 1812." Because of the word "together", I don't think "various" is needed.

• Changed.

• "Upon receiving the post-touchdown kickoff, Auburn began to run out the clock." "Upon"-->After, just because it's simpler that way.

• Changed.

• "Auburn quarterback Jason Campbell, who finished the game having completed 11 of 16 passes for 189 yards, one touchdown, and one interception, was named the game's most valuable player."

• Changed.

• "The Sugar Bowl marked a homecoming for Tech punter Vinnie Burns, who played high school football 15 miles from the Louisiana Superdome, site of the Sugar Bowl." "marked"-->was

Dabomb87 (talk) 23:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Changed. JKBrooks85 (talk) 07:55, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• "Their first win in the new conference was followed by their first loss, however, as the Hokies lost the next week to North Carolina State, 17–16, when Tech kicker Brandon Pace missed a last-second field goal." Was the conference really "new"?

• Changed. I was trying to say Virginia Tech's new conference, but it was kind of awkward. Thanks.

• "The Auburn Tigers, meanwhile, had completed their first 12-win regular season, and won their first conference championship in 15 years, but in the final BCS rankings, Auburn was third, behind USC and Oklahoma." No comma after season.

• Changed. Darn dependent clauses.

• "With little time remaining before halftime, Virginia Tech was forced into a hurry-up offense." "was forced into"-->used.

• Changed.

• "On the first play of the drive, Bryan Randall completed an 80-yard touchdown pass to Josh Morgan. The play traversed the length of the field and the score plus the extra point cut Auburn's lead to 16–13." "Traversed the length of the field" is unnecessary after a sentence that tells about an "80-yard touchdown pass".

• Changed. JKBrooks85 (talk) 09:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dabomb87 (talk) 00:47, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note, pls review WP:ACCESSIBILITY and WP:MOS#Images. There is a significant WP:MSH problem, two section headings with same names, so that when one edits, one returns to the wrong section. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:11, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks for the heads up, Sandy! It's been fixed. JKBrooks85 (talk) 10:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - I've made some minor tweaks based on the successful 2007 USC Trojans FAC, and I think this article is quite well done. I would suggest posting a request (possibly on a fan board) to some VT or Auburn fans who might have digital photos of the game that they might be willing to release under the appropriate license. --Bobak (talk) 14:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• I've done that at TechSideline, the largest Virginia Tech message board, but haven't had any luck. I'll keep at it, though. JKBrooks85 (talk) 21:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Comments regarding images:
  • Image:Sugar Bowl Logo.gif - is not low resolution (NFCC#3B) and does not identify a copyright holder (NFCC#10A). These are easily remedied. I don't believe the image needs to be removed, but the purpose "providing its chief graphical identifier" is rather weak. Please elaborate as to why this is important (WP:RAT vis-a-vis NFCC#10C requires a detailed rationale).
  • Other images appear fine. Эlcobbola _talk 17:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Status on the image? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've added copyright information and more information about how this logo differs from the current one being used. I'm unclear about the low resolution qualifier, however. I've run into this problem in the past, and would appreciate some guidance as to what the guidelines are for this ... I haven't been able to find them. What qualifies as low resolution? To me, 500x300 is low resolution, but I understand that standards may be different. Where can I find information about what qualifies as low resolution for this rule? JKBrooks85 (talk) 04:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.